Search found 298 matches

by Fabien Letouzey
Sat Sep 19, 2020 08:54
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Scan - new version
Replies: 19
Views: 1551

Re: Scan - new version

And what will happen if the engine repeats the same position three times. It's up to the user or interface to interpret the result, not the engine. The engine will just keep playing moves. Its job is to play, not organise tournaments. It's possible that, even after all those years, you are still co...
by Fabien Letouzey
Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:53
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Scan - new version
Replies: 19
Views: 1551

Re: Scan - new version

Scan is an engine, and that means it is simplified in various ways. Engines like Scan do not know that they are playing a game; you give them a position, and they answer a move. So it's up to the interface or the user to interpret the result; Scan will always play a move no matter what (not offer dr...
by Fabien Letouzey
Fri Aug 28, 2020 07:21
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Open source draughts engines
Replies: 3
Views: 545

Re: Open source draughts engines

Madeleine Birchfield wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 19:04
The major draughts engines, such as Scan, Kingsrow, Damage, Dragon, et cetera, all seem to be closed source. Are there any open source draughts engines out there?
Scan and Moby Dam are open source:
https://hjetten.home.xs4all.nl/
by Fabien Letouzey
Thu May 28, 2020 08:49
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Flits self-learning mode
Replies: 83
Views: 8470

Re: Flits self-learning mode

Especially the Kata-go paper link is interesting to read: it emphasizes using human ingenuity to come up with better NN primitives to accelerate learning. It should be right up your ally to see how this can be applied to draughts. The way I see it, DeepMind's MO has always been (so far?) to not opt...
by Fabien Letouzey
Wed May 27, 2020 08:46
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Flits self-learning mode
Replies: 83
Views: 8470

Re: Flits self-learning mode

There are no high-performance AlphaZero draughts programs yet. Last year, there were two candidate projects I was associated with (mostly at the advice level): one by Facebook, and one by the author of Galvanise-zero (G0) that I already mentioned on this forum. Unfortunately they were both terminat...
by Fabien Letouzey
Tue May 26, 2020 13:29
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Flits self-learning mode
Replies: 83
Views: 8470

Re: Flits self-learning mode

So it is up to the TD, in our case that means Krzysztof. Not sure I still like to compete myself. I have a magic trick to cheer people up, I just show them a part of my life. Years ago, Sidiki and I (independently) told everyone that Edeon Sport was using Scan 2's eval. What did Krzysztof do? He pa...
by Fabien Letouzey
Tue May 26, 2020 08:22
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Flits self-learning mode
Replies: 83
Views: 8470

Re: Flits self-learning mode

... I am surprised that this would be allowed, i.e. to call the result your original work. But if the community and in particular the lead programmer think it is fair then who am I to complain? Since the topic of fairness was brought up I wanted to include ML in the discussion. So to make it concre...
by Fabien Letouzey
Mon May 25, 2020 13:10
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Flits self-learning mode
Replies: 83
Views: 8470

Re: Flits self-learning mode

Just to establish some rules, would you say it is allowed if I take Scan's eval, change some features but still use your eval file, put that in my own search and use that to play my first million training games? I consider that using ML at all, especially when home-written, is enough to justify som...
by Fabien Letouzey
Sat May 23, 2020 20:05
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Flits self-learning mode
Replies: 83
Views: 8470

Re: Flits self-learning mode

For me, the key is how much Ed's code is actually contributing to Bert's evaluation weights. From the following quote from Bert (that I have no reason to doubt), it's focusing on the maths part. I feel that it's fine in this case, and this also goes in the direction Rein is advocating, that many 3rd...
by Fabien Letouzey
Sat Apr 04, 2020 14:24
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Computer Draughts Rating Lists
Replies: 4
Views: 1203

Re: Computer Draughts Rating Lists

For instance : how do the current best engine versions (of the strongest engines) compare to Scan 2.0 ? I first thought your post was focused on human/computer comparisons (which I don't think exist), and missed that last line. Scan 3 was a big jump in 2017, so programs are still making progress. I...
by Fabien Letouzey
Sat Mar 28, 2020 09:33
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Damage 15.3
Replies: 139
Views: 25396

Re: Damage 15.3

Also find out if I can improved the speed for the AMD (so replace PEXT). Scan doesn't use PEXT. Not only it's crippled on AMD, as you just noticed, but it won't scale in a world that will increasingly use ARM (which has bit reverse BTW). Here is an explanation that I sent to Rein a few years ago; h...
by Fabien Letouzey
Tue Feb 25, 2020 08:40
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Damage 15.3
Replies: 139
Views: 25396

Re: Damage 15.3

Do I understand correctly Bert that your training games were played with the handcrafted Damage evaluation function? I used two batches, the first with material-only evaluation and the second with the evaluation trained from the first batch, so bootstrapping from zero knowledge. What I usually do i...
by Fabien Letouzey
Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:04
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Damage 15.3
Replies: 139
Views: 25396

Re: Damage 15.3

Hi Bert, An interesting research question is , if there is further improvement when one further increases the win/lose ratio (for example do not include any draws), or if there is an optimum. I remember trying skipping draws, calling the label target "Wilo" (win/loss), in hope that this component wo...
by Fabien Letouzey
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:57
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019
Replies: 71
Views: 22882

Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

Ed Gilbert wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:09
What is the end position of that game?
I don't have it; the game has been replaced.
by Fabien Letouzey
Mon Sep 09, 2019 08:56
Forum: Draughts, Computer, Internet
Topic: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019
Replies: 71
Views: 22882

Re: Unofficial World Championships Of Computer Programs Rapid 2019

While I was also surprised by the result, Krzysztof might be correct in his decision. Who knows, maybe 5 kings are not enough against 2 (!); I didn't know that. Scan's score alone cannot be trusted in the specific case of endgames with many kings. The reason is that Scan has learned from improved dr...